battery or starter issue?

[John]

I took my car out for a spin over the weekend and experienced something that I thought I'd see if anyone might have had a similar past experience with or feedback. I drove the car about 20 minutes and was at operating temp, then stopped to get gas and shut if off. When I went to restart it, it acted as though the battery barely had the juice to turn over the motor. Luckily it caught so I didn't have to crank it more than a few seconds. This has never occurred before. And when I started it up that morning, it cranked with plenty of power.

I did not have the time to look into it once I returned it to the garage and might try to re-create the situation this weekend. The battery I think I can rule out since it cranked over fine earlier in the day-however, I did not try cranking again after I returned home since I was in a rush to be somewhere. And as I said, the car has never done this before and this just came out of the blue. Any thoughts?

[shadowgray396]

John, I would guess the starter since it is a common problem with a stock starter when the engine is hot. Is it a stock starter? That is why alot of guys go with high torque starter. Battery can make a difference also. You want a deep cell battery wih lot of starting amps. My old Chevelle would do that when I shut it off and tried to start it after a very short time.

[BillsCamino]

Headers on the car? If so, typical heat sink issue.
Go buy and install a replacementstock style mini starter from a late 80s thru mid 90s Chevy 5.7L 1500 pickup.
Was good enough to crank over my 540 with 11.0 CR...for years.;)
Cost around $75 depending on how well ya know your favorite auto parts counter person.

[fleming23]

Have you checked your cranking volts? Agree it sounds like the starter is getting heat soaked. If you buy a new one make sure it has a warranty!

This happened to my GM Performance mini starter yesterday

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/efleming_23/1970%20Chevelle/6397044A-FCC9-4436-BE52-2DC2BB4655A9-6712-000002D35A3A3365.jpg?t=1353355622

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/efleming_23/1970%20Chevelle/FD99D81E-8841-4DEC-9BAE-80FB6F4F200F-6712-000002D35F8BC814.jpg?t=1353355622

[Hank70SS]

Could be the battery, could be the starter, could be battery cable connections. It takes more amps to turn over a hot engine. Heat soak on the starter is common but I have a stock starter, no heat shield and headers, never had a problem. If the starter is going then yes, heat soak could cause the problem.

A weak battery is another possibility. Like I said, it takes more amps to start an engine that is hot and just shut down a few minutes before. Do you have a known good battery you swap into it?

If any the battery connections, ground cable connection to block or positive cable to starter are corroded they should be cleaned up.

I would start with the basics before replacing the starter. Go to an auto parts store, they can test the battery and the amp draw of the starter. That should tell you if it's the battery or the starter.

[Ms Grumpy]

I have been the same route and my problem did end up being heat soak from the headers. I did replace the starter and install a heat shield before my problem was corrected. But I would try like Hank said and go to the auto parts store first. Good luck.

[John]

I appreciate the suggestions. Yes the car has headers, starter is not stock. Battery, that is the first thing I want to check is age. When I bought the car I recall the seller said it was probably due to be replaced. My concern with heat soak, it's never did it over the summer when it was in hotter weather. However, I did drive it about 5-8 miles at highway speeds, just before getting gas. Not sure if that makes much difference with heat transfer from the headers, low speeds to shut down vs highway speeds to shut down. As I said, engine was at normal temp (about 165/170).

I agree-last think I will do is replace the starter. Need to check the basics first.

[shadowgray396]

So have you found out what might be your problem?

[Ms Grumpy]

John your story sounds SO familiar. I used to hate to stop for gas. And I made sure that when I did stop that I had time to let the car sit and cool. I even broke down and bought a portable fan that I would use to circulate the air under the hood when I stopped. I am so glad those days are over. I hope you solve your problem soon.

[John]

I took a brief look at it yesterday but with family in town I had little time to slip away for a full diagnosis. But what I did find may very well be the issue. Two things, for one, the battery is 93 months old (it's a 2005). The voltage is fine at 12.5 volts but I suspect with the age, it's load ability is far from fresh. Second, the positive lead on the starter is rusted. So, the plan is replace the old battery and clean up the connections on the starter and see how that goes. It may indeed resolve the issue. Thanks for your input.

[Hank70SS]

Fully charged battery should be around 12.8v. At 12.2v consider it dead, most likely will not turn the engine over. Many people don't realize the proper voltage for a 12v battery. They assume 12v for a 12v battery is good, not true.

[John]

I cleaned up the rusted cable at the starter. Test drove it to get to normal temp, shut if off for a few minutes then cranked it over. Although it did cranked over, it acted strained like it didn't have the torque. I'll replace the battery in the spring. If that doesn't do it, I'll replace the starter.

[shadowgray396]

Most automotive electrical-battery shops can put a tester on your battery and tell you which one is bad when you try start your car. Orileys, Autozone, etc will do it for free.

[mck531]

Hey John

As a control electrician I can tell you what to rule out.

While your car is running take a volt meter to the battery.

It should read close to 14 volts. A battery wont crank a starter if you don't have 12.6 volts or more. Also check the output of your altenator. It should be 14 volts.

Its possible you have a dead spot on your starter. I would keep an eye on it

[ProStreet67]

Have you checked your cranking volts? Agree it sounds like the starter is getting heat soaked. If you buy a new one make sure it has a warranty!

This happened to my GM Performance mini starter yesterday

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/efleming_23/1970%20Chevelle/6397044A-FCC9-4436-BE52-2DC2BB4655A9-6712-000002D35A3A3365.jpg?t=1353355622

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo198/efleming_23/1970%20Chevelle/FD99D81E-8841-4DEC-9BAE-80FB6F4F200F-6712-000002D35F8BC814.jpg?t=1353355622

I remember those days....broke nose cones every few weeks on a Hi Compression 427 I had. Used to carry a spare when ever I went crusing and ended up replacing a starter every now and then before leaving the cruise spot. GM did offer a steal nose cone starter back in the day. I know it was available for an LS7 454 Chevelle. Hard to find as time went on, but stopped the nose cone issues. Look for an after market steel nose cone model.

John, I would put a new batter in the car. Prob the battery although heat soak is an issue. I Would also suggest a new cable to the starter and maybe put a heat shield and or wrap around the starter for some added insulation.

[John]

I replace the battery with a solid AC Delco, 850 CC amps at 0 degrees, and 1,000 CCA at 32 degrees. So far I've not had any issue's starting it when it's hot however, the true test will be this summer.

[Ms Grumpy]

John did you do the heat shield too ? I would still suggest it.

[bad68]

I think you should be fine with the new battery and corrected positive lead on th e starter.